DH first thoughts
Jul. 22nd, 2007 04:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selene_13Before I go off to plunge myself into the fandom response, I am writing some thoughts down here, of course, behind a spoiler cut:
I am actually a bit on the fence. Bewildered maybe. A little satisfied at how certain things turned out, and disappointed by others. But I am very happy that this book hasn’t left me in a disillusioned rage like HBP did.
To start, I think JKR managed a pretty good conclusion. There was a lot of exposition at the end (I was waiting for someone to holler “Enough with the monologueing!” during the final duel), but I don’t refute that it needed to be said. I was happy with the Snape explanation and the redemption it brought Slytherin House, even though I had expected it. I wasn’t one of those who thought that Snape was in love with Lily (though everyone should be in love with Lily, so why wouldn’t he be?), so I was surprised by his exposition. It was well-written, and explained him a lot, though.
The deaths were pretty much what I expected (Lupin, one Weasley after all, aurors). I knew the sextet would be safe. However, when Harry went off to find Voldemort to get killed, my heart was in my throat for him. I was sure there was a loophole and he’d survive, but his deathmarch to find Voldemort, using the stone to bring his loved ones near him, was heartfelt. I liked the conclusion, I thought JKR had a good grasp of the action (this will make an awesome movie and the moviemakers must be rubbing their hands in glee), and DD’s expanded characterisation made him humanly fallible and therefore much more real than the unrealistic paragon he's been to now. I loved that Ron, Hermione and Neville all got to end a Horcrux. Nice inclusion of Grindelwald too.
The Deathly Hallows: I was thinking they'd prove to be a deus ex machina (look, it's the miracle wand, hidden in the fortress of fortitude, which is the only hope of defeating evil!), but that turned out all right. They were actually a nice balance in the Voldemort/Horcruxes and Dumbledore/Hallows scale (desire, power, corruption and who can resist it), and in the end didn't prove to be the be-all and end-all. Or, at least, they weren't written to be so to Harry even if they were kinda that.
There were some downsides to the book. The middle part, in the tent in the woods, dragged on, and Hermione was crying an awful lot (thanks, JKR, for anvilling that Harry doesn’t like crying girls and that Ginny doesn’t), and why did they need 7 Harry’s to confuse Death Eaters when they all could have disapparated (which is apparently untraceable) like Mundungus at any second, even from within the no. 4 safety spell boundary? Seems like a waste of life and ears.
Fred dying was sort of a surprise, but not too much. I thought JKR was going for Percy because of his noble turnaround. I wished she's left Percy in the dark, or at least in the middle of the conflict, so we wouldn't have the whole of the Weasley clan squeaky clean and noble. I liked that Percy (used to) proved that not every Weasley is predictable, and that every family has their black sheep. It's so black-and-white with JKR and this family.
And that brings me to the shipping, which I still hate. I am very, very happy that Ginny was invisible for most of this book. She got to do absolutely nothing, and I’m grateful. However, it makes Harry’s love very anti-climactic, like it’s not even important who he based his affection on. That might have been JKR’s intent as she wanted to focus on the Voldemort/Harry confrontation, but I find it not very satisfying when I think of what Harry deserves. I still think that Hermione, without whom he would not be alive, without whom he could not have won, without whom the entire plot would have unravelled, has been written and developed as the perfect partner and complement to Harry. Harry may need Ron’s friendship, but he didn’t need Ron personally to finish the quest. Yet he would have failed without her. The way they were together at that graveyard where his parents lie, that was lovely. Her breaking down over Ron the ass, that was pathetic.
Ron was much nicer to Hermione this book, that is certain, but I still greatly dislike him. He is a quitter and always has been. When the going gets tough, he blames it on the other and abandons them. He did it to Hermione in PoA, to Harry in GoF, and he did it to both of them in this book. He always has an excuse (My rat, My pride, My jealousy, My failing, My hunger, My wearing a cursed object), but neither Harry nor Hermione have ever succumbed to this: It is always Ron and his excuses. Sure, he always comes back… but he leaves first, leaving the other crushed. So, sure, he is a good laugh and a brave friend, but he is loyal to himself first, and that annoys me. Hermione deserves better than Ron. Of course JKR brings him back with saving Harry’s life (how else can she possibly redeem him), but that doesn’t change his 7 book long behaviour in my eyes.
At least H/Hr got one scene with them getting it on. This locket-phantom will probably play hotter than any R/Hr or H/G on screen. While reading Harry’s response to it, I could imagine JKR wielding her anvil quite gleefully, but then, I hadn’t expected any different. She’s just bad at understanding it herself.
We predicted Weasley babies right? I counted five at the end. The OBHWF quartet started producing them in their mid-twenties (younger than I am now). The brilliant Hermione too. Yuck. What’s the rush, really? What’s wrong with living a little first, maybe go to university, have a career, see the world. There’s time enough for all of it. I guess Harry and Ginny needed to start early, after all, they’re still missing a Sirius, a Remus and a Cedric. You’d think Ron and Hermione would have helped share the naming load!
I’ve generally hated epilogues, and this one was just too sugary sweet. I like to leave the story at the true finish of it, and prefer to envision my own future for the characters. The future is always uncertain, and I like it to be no different for the people I’m reading and caring about. I have my own imagination, and I prize it.
Sooo, concluding (cause my mind is blank now), I think JKR wrote a pretty decent climax, but her shipping still sucks. If one ignores the shipping (which can be done) the book was quite good, a lot better than HBP, and pretty exciting action-wise. Thank god Harry wasn’t the dumb ass he was in HBP. I loved him again, and for that I can ignore a lot of what I'd otherwise wrinkle my nose at.
ETA: Harry nearly swallowing the Snitch in his first game... isn't that movie canon?
ETA2: Aren't unforgivable curses, you know, unforgivable.
ETA3: I just realised how many post-epilogue fics are going to appear about Potter: The Next Generation. The horror!
And now, I'm off into the wild. I'll be back.
I am actually a bit on the fence. Bewildered maybe. A little satisfied at how certain things turned out, and disappointed by others. But I am very happy that this book hasn’t left me in a disillusioned rage like HBP did.
To start, I think JKR managed a pretty good conclusion. There was a lot of exposition at the end (I was waiting for someone to holler “Enough with the monologueing!” during the final duel), but I don’t refute that it needed to be said. I was happy with the Snape explanation and the redemption it brought Slytherin House, even though I had expected it. I wasn’t one of those who thought that Snape was in love with Lily (though everyone should be in love with Lily, so why wouldn’t he be?), so I was surprised by his exposition. It was well-written, and explained him a lot, though.
The deaths were pretty much what I expected (Lupin, one Weasley after all, aurors). I knew the sextet would be safe. However, when Harry went off to find Voldemort to get killed, my heart was in my throat for him. I was sure there was a loophole and he’d survive, but his deathmarch to find Voldemort, using the stone to bring his loved ones near him, was heartfelt. I liked the conclusion, I thought JKR had a good grasp of the action (this will make an awesome movie and the moviemakers must be rubbing their hands in glee), and DD’s expanded characterisation made him humanly fallible and therefore much more real than the unrealistic paragon he's been to now. I loved that Ron, Hermione and Neville all got to end a Horcrux. Nice inclusion of Grindelwald too.
The Deathly Hallows: I was thinking they'd prove to be a deus ex machina (look, it's the miracle wand, hidden in the fortress of fortitude, which is the only hope of defeating evil!), but that turned out all right. They were actually a nice balance in the Voldemort/Horcruxes and Dumbledore/Hallows scale (desire, power, corruption and who can resist it), and in the end didn't prove to be the be-all and end-all. Or, at least, they weren't written to be so to Harry even if they were kinda that.
There were some downsides to the book. The middle part, in the tent in the woods, dragged on, and Hermione was crying an awful lot (thanks, JKR, for anvilling that Harry doesn’t like crying girls and that Ginny doesn’t), and why did they need 7 Harry’s to confuse Death Eaters when they all could have disapparated (which is apparently untraceable) like Mundungus at any second, even from within the no. 4 safety spell boundary? Seems like a waste of life and ears.
Fred dying was sort of a surprise, but not too much. I thought JKR was going for Percy because of his noble turnaround. I wished she's left Percy in the dark, or at least in the middle of the conflict, so we wouldn't have the whole of the Weasley clan squeaky clean and noble. I liked that Percy (used to) proved that not every Weasley is predictable, and that every family has their black sheep. It's so black-and-white with JKR and this family.
And that brings me to the shipping, which I still hate. I am very, very happy that Ginny was invisible for most of this book. She got to do absolutely nothing, and I’m grateful. However, it makes Harry’s love very anti-climactic, like it’s not even important who he based his affection on. That might have been JKR’s intent as she wanted to focus on the Voldemort/Harry confrontation, but I find it not very satisfying when I think of what Harry deserves. I still think that Hermione, without whom he would not be alive, without whom he could not have won, without whom the entire plot would have unravelled, has been written and developed as the perfect partner and complement to Harry. Harry may need Ron’s friendship, but he didn’t need Ron personally to finish the quest. Yet he would have failed without her. The way they were together at that graveyard where his parents lie, that was lovely. Her breaking down over Ron the ass, that was pathetic.
Ron was much nicer to Hermione this book, that is certain, but I still greatly dislike him. He is a quitter and always has been. When the going gets tough, he blames it on the other and abandons them. He did it to Hermione in PoA, to Harry in GoF, and he did it to both of them in this book. He always has an excuse (My rat, My pride, My jealousy, My failing, My hunger, My wearing a cursed object), but neither Harry nor Hermione have ever succumbed to this: It is always Ron and his excuses. Sure, he always comes back… but he leaves first, leaving the other crushed. So, sure, he is a good laugh and a brave friend, but he is loyal to himself first, and that annoys me. Hermione deserves better than Ron. Of course JKR brings him back with saving Harry’s life (how else can she possibly redeem him), but that doesn’t change his 7 book long behaviour in my eyes.
At least H/Hr got one scene with them getting it on. This locket-phantom will probably play hotter than any R/Hr or H/G on screen. While reading Harry’s response to it, I could imagine JKR wielding her anvil quite gleefully, but then, I hadn’t expected any different. She’s just bad at understanding it herself.
We predicted Weasley babies right? I counted five at the end. The OBHWF quartet started producing them in their mid-twenties (younger than I am now). The brilliant Hermione too. Yuck. What’s the rush, really? What’s wrong with living a little first, maybe go to university, have a career, see the world. There’s time enough for all of it. I guess Harry and Ginny needed to start early, after all, they’re still missing a Sirius, a Remus and a Cedric. You’d think Ron and Hermione would have helped share the naming load!
I’ve generally hated epilogues, and this one was just too sugary sweet. I like to leave the story at the true finish of it, and prefer to envision my own future for the characters. The future is always uncertain, and I like it to be no different for the people I’m reading and caring about. I have my own imagination, and I prize it.
Sooo, concluding (cause my mind is blank now), I think JKR wrote a pretty decent climax, but her shipping still sucks. If one ignores the shipping (which can be done) the book was quite good, a lot better than HBP, and pretty exciting action-wise. Thank god Harry wasn’t the dumb ass he was in HBP. I loved him again, and for that I can ignore a lot of what I'd otherwise wrinkle my nose at.
ETA: Harry nearly swallowing the Snitch in his first game... isn't that movie canon?
ETA2: Aren't unforgivable curses, you know, unforgivable.
ETA3: I just realised how many post-epilogue fics are going to appear about Potter: The Next Generation. The horror!
And now, I'm off into the wild. I'll be back.
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no subject
Date: 2007-07-22 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-22 06:06 pm (UTC)I've just spent 2 hours reading fandom reactions, and most of my friendslist is hating on the book, so I don't know if you'd like it at all. I was just happy it wasn't the dreck HBP was, but this was mainly because shipping wasn't the main theme; there was actual plot! If you resign yourself to the craptastic ships, you can focus on the other stuff.
I went in with no expectations and fully thought it'd leave me cold, so it wasn't hard for the book to gain some win, you know?
no subject
Date: 2007-07-23 08:13 am (UTC)I didn't like the Deathly Hallows gimmick. The horcruxes were Voldemort's way of being immortal, and thus the Trio had to find them, fine. But then we have the Hallows pop up as another parallel plot thread. What was to stop Hermione looking up a library book and discovering the existence of Merlin's staff / an Atlantean Orb / et cetera? I can't help but wish JKR had tightened the whole thing up, made a good tight neat *elegant* plot, rather than throwing everything but the kitchen sink into it - Hallows, horcruxes, brand-new wand lore, et cetera.
I also got tired real fast of the pacing/feel of the book, with the Trio bumbling around basically following Harry on his hunches, his instinct. Having Remus/'Romulus' actually comment on such might be viewed by some as cute, but it just grated with me. I'd prefer a hero who *thinks* (can anyone think of a certain distaff member of the Trio?) rather than someone who just bumbles around trusting to luck.
OMG I JUST REALISED - NO FELIX FELICIS THANK GOD!!!
Actually, I think DH is further proof to my assertion that HBP was a BAD BOOK, nothing but largely unnecessary filler. I thought your idea in a comment about bundling part of the DH plot into the HBP movie was *excellent* (and a corollary maybe of my BAD BOOK belief).
There was a lot of exposition at the end
Heh. I would have bet anything that at least THIS book would be the one without any final Dumbledore exposition chapter, given, like, that he was *DEAD*. But *still* he comes back to deliver his monologue!! Some blokes just won't take a hint! :-)
his deathmarch to find Voldemort, using the stone to bring his loved ones near him, was heartfelt.
Wasn't that great? The best part of the book, for me. I found it very moving, choked up a little, when Harry took off, seeking solace from his departed loved ones, walking to his death. He's a hero all right.
DD’s expanded characterisation made him humanly fallible
I was converted into the 'evil/bumbling Dumbledore' fan club after HBP, calling him 'patronising' and 'evasive'. I was cheering loudly the several times in the book when Harry thought exactly the same thing. Chilling, that Dumbledore originally planned for Harry to die (permanently) in the defeat of Voldemort.
Dumbledore's exposition explained a lot, but I'm not sure that his 'plan' was way over-complicated and could have easily failed. Why not tell Harry most things front up? I think Harry himself asked him that, I'll have to double-check that one.
The Deathly Hallows: I was thinking they'd prove to be a deus ex machina (look, it's the miracle wand, hidden in the fortress of fortitude, which is the only hope of defeating evil!), but that turned out all right.
(LOL at the Fortress) No, I'm of your first opinion. The whole 'mastering death' thing never was okay; the story of the three brothers and the three magical items made sense, but then the assertion that 'he who possesses all three will master death' just didn't follow, and was never clearly defined. Not that it mattered in the final outcome, but it muddied things up.
The elevation of Harry's cloak to DH status puzzled/frustrated me. Wasn't it supposed to be an uber!cloak, completely impenetrable? Yet we know Dumbledore and Moody could see through it fine.
I suspect I'm missing things, but all the Elder Wand did in the end was reflect back Voldmort's final AK. Did it do anything else? It *didn't* resurrect Harry, that was due to Voldmort's sharing some of his/Lily's 'blood'.
I think the story would have been much better without the Hallows. And I hated how Dumbledore gave the Trio the oh-so-presciently-convenient gifts so they could work it all out. An artificially contrived plot, is my gut feeling.
Continued ...
no subject
Date: 2007-07-24 05:54 pm (UTC)Oh yeah, there were a lot of moments where I thought: What would Harry do if Hermione (she of the awesome handbag) hadn't gone with him. She brought the tent where they lived in, the portret of Phineas, clothes(!), the security spells, the Polyjuice, and whatever more she did that I can't think of now that would probably have meant the failure of Harry's unlucky non-planning. He left The Burrow with nothing on him.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-25 06:10 am (UTC)I almost cheered out loud when Hermione saved the two boys with her quick reaction and extended planning at the wedding. OUR GIRL RULES!!!!
Of course, the whole DD/Grindelwald thing is so Prof X/Magneto.
LOL! I'm not up-to-date with the X-Men, but I like it!
Hey! I thought you were a DC person!? :-)
That reminds me, how dumb was Harry when they got caught because he said "Voldemort" after Ron explained how important it was not to; that there was a Taboo on the name? Hermione gets tortured because of that!
That's okay, he was thinking of Ginny and her 'hard, blazing look' at the time ... :-(
Those fears he had that the locket reflected, it wasn't something he had to overcome: It is handed to him. Harry assures him there is nothing to worry about. Ron will get what he wants, not what he deserves.
Excellent analysis there, good stuff, thanks! You've got me thinking! Imagine if Harry had said 'yeah, mate, I like Hermione too!'. Ron would have chucked a fit and gone home (again).
No, she's been waiting for him all along, ever since PS apparently, so as soon as he wants her, he basically gets her.
That's the bit I hate most of all, yes. According to the anvils Hermione settled on Ron (who knows why) way back, and was just waiting for him to grow up and meet her criteria. "Did I just hear him express concern for house elves?" *ticks box* "Hey, that's the last one; he's good enough for me now!" *smooch*
There is not a single reason why Harry shouldn't look at Hermione romantically at some time, just as there is no reason why Hermione wouldn't at some point consider Harry. Ron and Hermione manage it, why not Harry and Hermione? Even after all the jealousy of Krum and Cho, Harry never once stops to think about what it means or what Hermione means to him, even to decide against it. It just doesn't make any sense for them not to, which is why JKR's surprise about H/Hr is so lame. They should at least consider it as it would be perfectly natural for teenagers to do, but the fact that they don't is ONLY because JKR has decided that they don't because she's made up her mind about R/Hr. Which is why the "she is like a sister" is an anvil from the author, not something we ever see Harry reason through or decide on his own by considering what it would be like to be with Hermione as opposed to Cho or Ginny or even Fleur.
Word.
I've even read numerous H/G stories where, somewhere in the beginning, Harry considers Hermione as a potential girlfriend (even one where he kisses her). You're so right; JKR had all the sensitivity, subtlety and sophistication of a
sledgehammeranvil in blocking off H/Hr. Let *Harry* tell us why he sees her as only a sister!Oh well. Let the new fan fiction commence!
no subject
Date: 2007-07-24 06:09 pm (UTC)I was converted into the 'evil/bumbling Dumbledore' fan club after HBP, calling him 'patronising' and 'evasive'.
Me too. I thought exactly those things, and just plain illogic for DD not to tell Harry anything, not to mention extremely irresponsible with children (the whole "good job, idiot" thing). But, now that we know he was once a young boy who made many mistakes, who walked the grey line, who was tempted by power and is fallible, I like DD much more. That's a feat in this one last book. Of course, the whole DD/Grindelwald thing is so Prof X/Magneto. :)
'he who possesses all three will master death' just didn't follow, and was never clearly defined.
Yes. Besides killing Voldemort with the wonder-wand, what exactly was the effect of all three objects being in the possession of a single person?
I wish JKR had introduced the idea of Hallows before, even just a mention of the fable. Then it wouldn't seem so much as something she just pulled out of a hat (JKR was all like "La, nobody's figured out the ending", when honestly, how is one to make up Hallows? Everybody predicted that Harry might die and come back a la Jesus/Gandalf, that the Horcruxes would be hunted and that Snape was good.
And I hated how Dumbledore gave the Trio the oh-so-presciently-convenient gifts so they could work it all out. An artificially contrived plot, is my gut feeling.
True, but then, there is always this sort of mystery that would be much more easily solved if people'd just talk to one another, but JKR has surely done this before (the Triwizard Cup when Crouch!Moody could have easily portkeyed Harry's toothbrush; the teacher's defences in PS which were catered specifically to the talents of Harry&friends; refusing to tell Harry about his psychic link with Voldemort in OotP, which would ease his mind about why he can't know the plans and why he dreams what he does).
part 2 ...
Date: 2007-07-23 08:34 am (UTC)That's explained; on page 45 of my Australian edition (possibly the same as yours; the book versions are either USA or everyone-else, right?) Moody explains about the 'Trace':
If you, or anyone around you, casts a spell to get you out of here, Thicknesse is going to know about it
Which I thought was a bit suspect - when is this 'Trace' applied to a child? - but I guess it's consistent with the mixup with Dobby's spell in CoS. How do wizarding households get by, though?
thanks, JKR, for anvilling that Harry doesnt like crying girls and that Ginny doesnt
Isn't it embarrassing, I never noticed that anvil? Where is it that Harry actually thinks that he doesn't like crying? I remember - near the end, after Fred's death or the victory? - him noting that Ginny didn't cry. Thanks for pointing it out.
And that brings me to the shipping, which I still hate.
Ditto.
I was, honestly, really scared that Ginny Sue would be injected into the plot at any moment. For a while I thought that the patronus doe was hers, to match Harry's stag. Although it wouldn't have made sense for her to hide from them. So glad Ginny stayed out of it.
My dislike of Ginny from HBP stayed consistent with what I saw of her in DH; in the only two scenes where she does anything, she's either egotistically giving Harry a kiss in lieu of a proper birthday present (had to laugh at the more lascivious folk who suggested that she would have offered Harry certain ... other ... favours, had Ron not barged in; I'm such an innocent!) or, when faced with an invasion of Hogwarts and the destruction of the entire wizarding world, she's selfishly and 'fiercely' stopping Cho from helping out the hero. Bah.
like it’s not even important who he based his affection on.
SPOT ON, Selene!!! Yes, H/G is really no more different than G/Corner or G/Dean. All Harry sees is his trophy girlfriend, she of the 'hard blazing looks' and nice kisses. And that's it.
I didn't think too much of the R/Hr either, although it was much more prevalent and it was clear that R/Hr were happy with each other. Still, it makes one wonder ... the anvils are supposed to tell us that Hermione was attracted to Ron years ago, right? So, she was just waiting for Ron to grow up, to meet her expectations? And thus, equipped with his "12 Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Witches", Ronnie finally worked out what buttons to push, finally getting his big kiss when he remembers to mention the house elves.
Which makes one ask ... just why was Hermione attracted to Ron in the first place, if she had to wait all that time for him to satisfy all of her criteria?
I would love to read an AU fanfic (if it wasn't for that bloody epilogue, many H/Hr fics wouldn't necessarily be AU) wherein Hermione one day comes across that book of Ron's, and sees scribbled in the margins (shades of HBP!) notes about "say THIS to Hermione", "remember house elves", and such. Even the epilogue, with Ron confunding a muggle, seems to suggest that he hadn't truly changed all that much, with such a cavalier attitude? Would such a discovery (sans epilogue) suddenly cause Hermione to doubt Ron's sincerity?
Continued ...
Re: part 2 ...
Date: 2007-07-24 06:40 pm (UTC)Oh that's right. That's why the trio was immediately found when they apparated to Tottenham Court! I forgot.
That reminds me, how dumb was Harry when they got caught because he said "Voldemort" after Ron explained how important it was not to; that there was a Taboo on the name? Hermione gets tortured because of that!
Where is it that Harry actually thinks that he doesn't like crying?
I am not exactly sure where. I think it was at the Burrow, when Ginny wanted to give Harry his "present" or else somewhere before this. I know it's in the book, I've seen others comment on this passage. Harry doesn't like girls who cry a lot, then (later?) comments that that's what he likes about Ginny, that she hardly ever cries.
I am so happy Ginny was in here so little, cause JKR really doesn't know what to do with her. If she'd built her properly like she did Hermione (from the beginning or early on!), perhaps H/G would have been satisfying, but as far as even DH the two share absolutely nothing. Harry tells Ginny nothing of what he goes through, he doesn't seek her out, he doesn't comfort her or get any from her, and we don't get to see Ginny develop (she just grows up one book to next). Who is Ginny's best friend? What is her favourite class? What is her opinion on house elves? Ginny is just not a full, well-rounded character. She has been written as a peripheral, secondary character, because main characters get development on the page. I agree with many people on my friendslist: she exists only as the trophy wife and the harbinger of a big family. She, as a person, does not really exist, which is why I just can't care about her.
And thus, equipped with his "12 Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Witches", Ronnie finally worked out what buttons to push, finally getting his big kiss when he remembers to mention the house elves.
I wrote a sort of essay in this lj once on how I hoped Ron would get what he needed instead of what he wanted. This unfortunately never came true. Ron never has to work for anything get gets, he just has to want it. Did Ron earn to get the prefecture handed to him (it belonged to someone worthier)? Did he earn to be Keeper (there was someone better but Hermione cheated for him)? Did he earn Hermione (he's been making her cry and being unappreciative of her since book 1)? I don't think so. He got things handed because he wanted them (the mirror of Erised image), but he never worked for them. Even once he got what he wanted, he didn't work to be worthy of them (wanting to quit Quidditch, dumping Prefect duties on Hermione). Ron is a quitter. He doesn't need money or fame (his GoF jealousy), he needs to understand that he is rich in family and for not having a mass-murderer after him. Ron needs to find that you have to work to earn things, that you have to earn respect, that you have to behave nice to someone to get them to like you. He was perhaps making an effort (finally!) in DH by coming with Harry for the sake of everyone else and by at least trying to be nicer to Hermione, but he quit the two anyway: just dumped them when it was hard, which was GoF and OotP all over again.
Then, does he have to work to earn Hermione after treating her like crap all these years? No, she's been waiting for him all along, ever since PS apparently, so as soon as he wants her, he basically gets her. There is just no development for Ron there. Does he ever acknowledge that he has the better deal? Does he ever have a revelation about how money and fame aren't everything? Does he ever not get what he wants? If only he had to get over H/Hr or something similar: if Ron could manage to get over his disappointment (his "losing") for a change, and be able to not resent the other two, then I would consider him grown. Those fears he had that the locket reflected, it wasn't something he had to overcome: It is handed to him. Harry assures him there is nothing to worry about. Ron will get what he wants, not what he deserves. In this case, I always thought H/Hr would be good for Ron; not getting what he wanted, but perhaps what he needed (a supporter like Luna, for instance, who didn't feel like she had to change or better who he really was).
Part 3
Date: 2007-07-23 08:36 am (UTC)On the H/G side again, one continues to wonder ... Harry was first attracted to Cho, had a kiss, but didn't like it (too wet). He was attracted to a second girl, Ginny; kissed her, liked it (she'd had *lots* of experience) and so stayed with her.
IF ONLY he'd searched a little longer, he might have come across a girl who could show him what a *real* relationship was like, satisfying him on depths and levels of which he was totally unaware with his first two attempts. Such a pity he stopped at Ginny.
I was REALLY ANGRY at Harry when he failed to support Hermione in the weeks following Ron's abandonment. When she was thoroughly miserable he deliberately ignored his distaff best friend, which infuriated me. Is that the 'hates crying girls' anvil?
I'd love to read a fanfic which turned things around at that point. I desperately need to see a BEST FRIEND Harry, comforting Hermione, offering her solace ... not necessarily of a romantic nature. But I could imagine an AU taking off from that point ... Hermione's opinion of Ron would have never been lower, and, if Harry had only tried to ease her pain, maybe she could have switched off Ronnie and started to see Harry in a new light. Not falling in love immediately - that would be on the rebound! - but, over time, maybe ...
And if only Harry could have kissed her, just thought ONCE of Hermione - whom we know he thinks is pretty - in a romantic way; he'd see her then as a 'Ginny' PLUS all the other benefits of his existing best friend - maybe we would have had something.
Sigh.
Cheers for now.
Re: Part 3
Date: 2007-07-24 07:00 pm (UTC)You mean, IF ONLY JKR hadn't written that aweful, horrid epilogue? Because then it would all be open, all be free and positive and limitless. OBHWF might end the book, but we can all imagine the future we like, a more realistic one perhaps, where people don't all marry their very first girlfriends and become breeding machines, where people have the whole world and all its options open to them, and we can imagine them as we wish!
If only JKR hadn't killed off every other possibility.
Oh well, fanfic will prevail. It's just such a sorry way to end the books. It's so backwards. And limited. And so not the future I would envision for myself, anyone I love, or my favourite fictional characters.
I'd love to read a fanfic which turned things around at that point. I desperately need to see a BEST FRIEND Harry, comforting Hermione, offering her solace
When I read these chapters after Ron left, I had this inkling that this was it. This was the opening JKR could use to turn it around. This was an opening for H/Hr (I knew she wouldn't take it, but it was there nonetheless). It would have been too little, too late, but I was grinning as I envisioned the fanfic that will explore what went on in that tent late at night. ;)
Still though, even if JKR anvilled us all to death by telling us that Harry thinks of Hermione as a sister, she still doesn't seem to get that the Harry/Hermione bond is so much stronger and better developed and deeper than H/G ever was: In her own writing! That moment in the graveyard... how does she think that telling us about "several sunlit days" will ever measure up to showing us that beautiful H/Hr moment? She anvils us to death, but her prose just tells us differently.
And if only Harry could have kissed her, just thought ONCE of Hermione - whom we know he thinks is pretty - in a romantic way
Which is just plain dumb. There is not a single reason why Harry shouldn't look at Hermione romantically at some time, just as there is no reason why Hermione wouldn't at some point consider Harry. Ron and Hermione manage it, why not Harry and Hermione? Even after all the jealousy of Krum and Cho, Harry never once stops to think about what it means or what Hermione means to him, even to decide against it. It just doesn't make any sense for them not to, which is why JKR's surprise about H/Hr is so lame. They should at least consider it as it would be perfectly natural for teenagers to do, but the fact that they don't is ONLY because JKR has decided that they don't because she's made up her mind about R/Hr. Which is why the "she is like a sister" is an anvil from the author, not something we ever see Harry reason through or decide on his own by considering what it would be like to be with Hermione as opposed to Cho or Ginny or even Fleur. Because in the end, Hermione is not his sister (in fact, Ginny is more of a sister figure than Hermione).
no subject
Date: 2007-07-25 07:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-25 08:00 pm (UTC)Thanks for clearing that up about the Snitch, I guess the movie-moment stood out so clear for me, but now I remember: what was different about it was the surfing. :)
Of course it's a personal decision when you're going to have children, but I'm 27, and so are 6 of my closest girlfriends, and everyone at my job who is around my age (about 5 girls, 2 boys), and all of my brother's friends (he's 26) except for this one guy, none of us have kids yet. I have one girlfriend who is married. All of us went to university, or another school to further our education. All of these people are just starting out in life, finding their own way, finding themselves (and a partner), moving in together, going on amazing holidays and trips around the world... Getting kids in your early or mid-twenties seems more like my mom's generation. Now, it's more early thirties. I don't want to start until late, if ever. What's the rush anyway? And not every girl is dreaming about the day she can have kids either. There actually is other things in life too.
I don't think Hermione is less "brilliant", but I bet her career is suffering for having two kids at her age. It's just not what I, personally and in my very own opinion, imagined for this character. I would rather imagine her going to university and having a career before a family, which can happen a later in life too. Honestly, I (that means for me, not for everyone) think having kids in your early twenties is very limiting, and very old-fashioned, and I didn't like to see it in a "modern" book like HP. But to each their own.
This book, though heavy on the action, had too many problems to be my favourite. That would be PoA for me.